PDA

View Full Version : Meet-up Tuesday, More perfume and Healthcare in Belgrade



Jonathan
19-01-09, 22:31
Hi crew,

We are nearly over the January bump, the most depressing period of any year for most of us as people suffer post Christmas poverty and we in the Northern Hemisphere suffer the two worst months of weather.

Belgrade certainly delivered on the dire weather this year. Freezing temperatures and driving snow - beautiful for a day before coming lethal sidewalk ice.

Last week, in one 48 hour period, nearly 200 people were admitted into city emergency rooms after falling on ice. One elderly man died from his injuries.

There may be more snow this year. Traditionally February is quite bad. If there is more snow, be super careful out there. Do not make the same mistake member Steve H (http://www.bb-films.com) once made in Budapest when he wore leather soled shoes after a snow shower. He ended up an involuntary figure skater for a day. When he got back to Belgrade I swear his hair was still ruffled by the wings of the angel of death.

OK, onward to this week's round-up....

Meet-up

As those of you on the Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2390959004) have already heard, we are having a snap meet-up tomorrow after work. Here is Elliot's message:
Our next get together is scheduled for Tuesday, January 20.
The location is at the Worldwide Association of Globe-Trotters, on Bul. Despota Stefana 7/-1.

Getting there can be a bit of an adventure, so for directions:
The entrance is in an apartment building slightly past Skadarlija. There is a small sign in Serbian on the interphone. The main door should be open, if not just buzz the interphone, it's the first name.

Go inside to the end of the hall, turn right and go down at the stairs, and there you are!

The reservation should be in my name, Elliott.

We hope to see many old and new members there!:)

Any questions, feel free to call me at 064 527 9259, or Jonathan at 063 366 158.
I think we will kick off around 6pm-6.30pm. Text Elliot for details.

More damned perfume

Does perfume go off? This is an unwanted gift (from me to a picky friend) that has been around since 2006.

Roberto Cavalli, 75ml Eau De Parfume, vaporiser.

If anyone wants it, just mail or message me.

http://images42.fotki.com/v1377/photos/8/85005/436298/cavalli2-vi.jpg

PS. Aleksandra, your perfume is still waiting for you to pick-up :-)

Health Care in Belgrade

I am about to write an article/primer on healthcare in Belgrade.

I would love to hear about people's experiences and tips in both the public health system and the private hospitals.

My own experience is that local dentists are absolutely first rate and inexpensive, but you need to be careful about doctors and prescribed drugs.

The problem in the state health sector is lack of resources, in private hospitals they tend to overreact to relatively minor symptoms and for the sake of safety or profit, advise tests, biopsies or treatments that are way over the top.

One big warning I have for people using private hospitals is that they have a fundamental weakness - they have no General Practitioners.

In the West now GPs are a speciality and they specialise in diagnostic medicine. An experienced GP is one of the most valuable medical assets and generally you should try and find one for your primary healthcare.

What happens with most private hospitals here is you call up and describe your symptoms, a nurse makes a judgement about what specialist to call in for you (from their usual hospital). They pretty much just provide the premises. It is like a medical dating service.

Sound simple but this has a huge disadvantage medically. Firstly you do not develop any sort of relationship with a doctor. Even a few visits can be enough for doctors to get a feel for their patients. Good GPs take into account family history, your character and life circumstances before prescribing treatment or referring you for specialist attention. Specialists tend to revert to the tools of their speciality right away - which means they tend to want to have proof of an ailment, meaning biopsies, scans and xrays.

This is often overkill for the minor symptoms they are facing, symptoms a GP would nearly always try and manage before referral.

I have also noticed a tendency in the doctors I have dealt with here to prescribe broad spectrum antibiotics way too quickly, no doubt to "be on the safe side". The problem is that this aggravates the truly deadly problem of drug resistant bacteria. I have heard rumours - never confirmed - that local drug companies have much more power over doctors here than in the West, and this influences the drugs you end up with.

I will flesh this out in the article, but my advice is:



Find yourself a good local dentist and go regularly.
Try and find a good GP to be your first port of call for everyday medical ailments.
If that GP says you need to see a specialist, then use the private hospitals to see a specialist quickly.
With any prescribed drugs, always check with your doctor back home or MIMMS (http://www.healthcarerepublic.com/mims/) to make sure it is safe and recommended.
If specialists recommend any invasive procedures (biopsy, surgery) or battery of expensive tests, again check with your family doctor back home to make sure it is in line with what they recommend.

Finally, I should make an important point - every Serbian doctor I personally have met and seen has been superb. Medially they have erred on the side of being too careful rather than blasé and that is fundamentally a good thing.

OK, that's it for this week. See some of you tomorrow and hopefully the rest of you pretty soon too.

Jonathan Davis
Personal: Limbicnutrition.com (http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/) | Pro: Combatconsulting.com (http://www.combatconsulting.com/) | Belgrade: Belgradefvc.com (http://www.belgradefvc.com/forum/../)
Skype: limbic | Connect through: LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathandavis) | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509235286) | Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/limbic)

KSRV97
19-01-09, 22:50
On the topic of healthcare in Belgrade....

I have only been to private facilities as that is what is covered by my work. Belmedic, which seems to cater to english-speaking expats.

It's a weird place where when you walk in, the nurses offer to make you coffee even with flavored syrup if you are interested.

The nurses who I have seen are good, although there's definitely a difference in the sanitation department. They pull up a side of the desk for a blood draw, at times using the same swab that sterilizes the area pre-draw to compress the spot afterwards. I'm sure it's fine and it's never really bothered me. They've been very friendly.

I have seen a specialist there once. His office hours started at 8pm, which I thought was bizarre but great since that totally fit my schedule. I believe he is a professor. Or at least that's how they refer to him when they phone me.

I find the prices to be very cheap... 600 RSD for blood draw, tests run, and phone call to me on the same day with results.

Prices of medication are also ridiculously cheap. They don't even take the prescription from you when it's filled nor mark on it... I could go in again and again on the same prescription.

They are a little more hardcore here I think in terms of pain... my friend's son had stitches in his head and they gave no numbing stuff at all.

K

AnthonyB
20-01-09, 00:06
I'm sorry I don't have much more to add than that I agree with Jonathan on the dentists here being first rate and prices for their services being more than reasonable.

I definitely agree KSRV97's comment on them being real hardcore about pain. When you get stitches they don't give you any anesthetic, when you are getting teeth drilled it is optional and if you are one of those poor souls that has your wisdom teeth pulled in Serbia, don't expect much more than Ibuprofen.

Hope to see you all at the get-together!

Jonathan
20-01-09, 14:06
On the topic of healthcare in Belgrade....

I have only been to private facilities as that is what is covered by my work. Belmedic,

I use Bel Medic and I have to say it has always been excellent.

It is popular with diplomats and expats, probably because it is fully certified for BUPA and other Health Insurance companies.

I also thought the coffee, sweets and sugary drinks was a bit weird.

The reason the "office hours" are usually in the evening is that these specialists usually have jobs at other hospitals as specialists or professors.

Bel Medic is pure private practice. It just provides a meeting place and connects up specialists with patients.

It is likely you did see a professor. These hospitals have on their books some of the best doctors in the country.

You will sometimes friend that the best doctors are actually military doctors and the only way one can see them is via the Bel Medic route.

Haematology is really cheap. That is why I advise friends to have regular check ups (every 6 months) that involve a good blood chemistry cross section, as well as sediment and c-reactive protein.

Medication is cheap, but but ask yourself why. Are you getting a generic drug, a cheap knock off or the best on the market?

As for Pharmacies, they are a joke in terms of enforcement. Have you noticed the large number of Pharmacies around hotels? I swear they cater exclusively to Western businessmen getting stocked up on Viagra and sleeping pills.

You and Anthony are right about the pain. Just the other day Jovana (http://www.belgradefvc.com/forum/member.php?u=242)asked me if they still drill teeth without anaesthetic here. I laughed at her, saying "Of course they do". Turns out she was right. Anaesthesia was not usually offered back in the day. Unreal!

amanda
20-01-09, 14:35
I am in Valjevo and my regular dentist has made me a bridge, crowned teeth all
at fraction of the price I would have paid in the UK. She will see me immediately if I am in pain and will always make appointments to suit her clients, often on a Saturday morning. As a declared, avowed coward sheautomatically gives me a local anaesthetic without asking. She is aware of my penicillin allergies and I never have to remind her. When I had a problem with a root infection that required an operation through the gum she referred me to a local Dental surgeon. He was superb, operated on me in his surgery, I truly did not feel a thing and he gave me an injection when I left to carry me through the next 24 hours. He charged me 5,000 R.S.D which included 4 visits and the operation itself. Of course I bought nice wine and chocs for everyone that worked there. One more thought about the hospital services here, they dont appear to have deaths from the multi-resistant virus inherent in UK hospitals now and neither do they seem to suffer the cot death syndrome. Perhaps we are the ones who have something to learn from the medical practises here?

Jonathan
20-01-09, 15:47
Yes, we are damned lucky to have these dentists. In the UK dentists
will routinely extract teeth that can be saved by root canal treatment
or make a patient in agony wait days for an appointment.

When I shattered a tooth on a Saturday morning (cracked it on an olive
stone), my dentist saw me 2 hours later even though I was not in pain
and his surgery was closed.

I have had several UK friends come over now for implants, crowns and
other treatments. They are all delighted by the quality of the work
and price.

There are several business springing up now to exploit this market.
Bulgaria and Hungary used ti be the cheap places, now I am convinced
the best nexus of price and quality is Serbia or maybe South Africa.

KSRV97
20-01-09, 21:56
"Enforcement" is an interesting word to use with the pharmacies....not what i would have thought of! lol...

The first time I went in to a pharmacy, the woman couldn't read the prescription correctly... so with her broken English and my pantomime... she gave me what she thought the prescription actually meant. (I looked it up on the internet when I got home and she was right!)

The second time I went, I was about to go away for the holidays and the Belmedic doctor said he had written the prescription for TWO so that I wouldn't have to refill so often. At the pharmacy however, they only gave me ONE. I immediately braced myself for what I thought would be challenging... convincing them to give me a second box. (Unfortunately, I can't read the prescription, so I have no idea if it actually said anything about a second box or not). But when I brought it up with the pharmacist, he shrugged and gave me another box. Then he asked me if I wanted a third! I'm sure I could have asked him for a couple more, just for the road, and he would have given it to me.

I know it is a generic drug, but I was taking a similar (I think?) generic version in the US. What I pay here is 1/5th the cost that my *co-pay* was in the US. And that was just the co-pay... not what it would have been out-of-pocket!

Jules
22-01-09, 14:57
Hi Jonathan, First of all congratulations on your engagement!!! What an exciting way to start the year!!! Second if no one else has enquired about the perfume I would be interested and if you you still have those learning serbian books? I was also wondering if you or anyone has any details of a Serbian for foreigners teacher who would be willing to come to my office in New Belgrade and teach me Serbian, they will have their work cut out believe me!!!! Happy New Year to all and once again congrats to the happy couple Jules

Jonathan
22-01-09, 16:13
Hey thanks Jules! The perfume is yours. The Serbian learning books are gone, but I know an excellent teacher who might suit you. Her name is Mira Danilovic and she can be reached via mail on mira22 AT eunet.yu . Tell her you know me. I am her favourite student (yeah right).

Jules
22-01-09, 16:39
Thanks I will contact her ASAP!! I am back in Belgrade now so hopefully will attend the next meet up, we had a situation with office heating here so I have been working from home.
Once again thanks and I look forward to meeting you soon
Jules

Tobias
28-01-09, 16:25
On the topic of healthcare in Serbia, I had a bad knee sprain a few years back. As i was working in Serbia, i had medical coverage (what all serbians get), so instead of going to a private clinic, i went to the local serbian ER on kneza Milosa. The doc gave me exellent service, did an xray and i didn't pay anything. Off course for an MRI scan, I would have to pay something as it is far more complex. All in all i was very satisfied with the whole experiance

Jonathan
02-02-09, 17:56
yeah people forget this: Private only means you jump the queue - the quality of doctors is usually the same (very high).

Maudels
05-02-09, 15:21
OK here goes. This is from one person who due to my husbands health problems and recently my own (I had a cancer scare recently) have become very familiar with both private and state medical care.

We were lucky 3 years ago to find a doctor who I would class as the nearest to being a GP in the private sector. Her name is Doctor Sandra Krasjvic (I am sure I have mispelt the surname) and she now works for Irva Clinic in Banovo Brdo. She has worked in a hospital for a period of time in Manchester, UK and her English is excellent. She helped my husband to survive a critical illness (given 48 hours to live on that one) and we have called on her many times for follow ups and more diagnostics for which she diagnosed another serious illness and between us we managed then to locate the necessary company to supply oxygen at home.

As for our State experience -truthfully on his first illness that was terrifying as he was admitted into Zemun hospital to what we can only refer to as the death ward where the elderly were waiting to die. That is how it felt and visiting is seriously restricted but thanks to Sandra she cleared it that I could be there all day every day that he was in although he only stayed in 1 night after what we saw. I have been told though that the Military hospital up in Dedinja is excellent and as we have also had dealings with a cardiologist there I can say the cardiology general ward looked clean and well staffed so would suspect the Diplomatic section would be even better.

We have also experienced the State general doctor in Belgrade (this doctor is refered to as the Diplomatic doctor and is just up from the British Embassy). Dr Danica also speaks good English and has been good for us for giving us my husbands prescriptoins on the state prescription (well those meds that can be giving on that as quite a few cannot be given in any other way than buy direct over the counter). Near to her is a medical centre where you can have x-rays and things done but you need to take a translator with you for that experience otherwise you have no chance of finding the correct rooms.

You also need to know which of the pharmacies as State pharmacies and which are private as, if you do get a prescription through the State (my husband does pay into the state medical service which is why we get this service) the prescriptions can only be purchased there for a super super discount (ie 1 seretide inhaler costs privatley over 3,000 dinars but on the state just over 700 dinars!!).

I am sure I could tell you more eg where and how to buy oxygen bottles and the kit that goes with it.

Dentists I have also experienced but as I think I have written enough for now I will sign off from here.

If you want to ask me anything else please feel free to call me on 064 360 6030 during the day. I have now moved out of Belgrade to a village near Novi Sad so am now on a quest to find an english speaking dentist and vet up here (we have registered already with the State doctor in the village having been extremley lucky to find one who speaks good English and looks like the Doctor off Back to the Future lol. Lovely man and the staff in this srugery are very friendly so we are now experiencing a Serbian way of life. Wewill also for specialist care still travel to Belgrade to see Sandra so that should tell you how good and comfortable we feel with her.

Alan
19-08-09, 11:11
Recently I have visited Belgrade and I just wanted to say that I had a great inexpensive dental treatment at the dental clinic dr Mirela Cvjetkovć located at New Belgrade Jurija Gagarina 26a. It was fast and very professional. Their web site www.dentaltourism.co.rs is under construction but you can find the contact details on it.
They all speak excellent English. Highly recommended!!!
I am not ashamed of my smile any more thanks to professionals like dr Mirela and her team.

Kyle
23-08-09, 14:15
I was recently in the emergency center (urgetni center) on kneza milosa because i had woken up with extreme pains in my lower back (unbearable to the extent where i couldnt walk), after alot of debating my girlfriend decided to take me to the urgetni center. Immediately I saw a doctor, very nice guy, spoke above average english. He was worried it was my appendix, so he sent me to do tests and then i was sent for an x-ray and finally I was sent for an Ultra sound.

The doctor doing the ultra sound said that I just had some sand in my kidneys, an injection later and we were at the reception. Upon my arrival they took my passport and said I will get it back once I pay.

So i went to the reception and said, politely "please can I have my passport" the woman behind the window shouted in srpski (obviously thinking I dont understand a word of it) " Who is this man? What does he want??" So another man-nurse came and said in srpski "he wants his passport give it to him" so then the woman demanded to speak to my girlfriend and she called her into the office and started shouting at Jovana. Jovana explained that she heard that if I am a brittish citizen, on a visa, then I automatically apply for health insurance.

This infuriated this woman and she started shouting at Jo saying that she wants to watch us sit and wait all night until we pay to get my passport back. Watching this from behind the window I saw jo's tears begin to run and I knew this was it, something wasn't right. Just before jo was about to exit their little office another woman called her into the back so she slammed the door and started shouting "this is unprofessional, never in my life have i been treated so unfairly" etc etc and once she went to the back the woman told her to just walk out as if nothing had happened.

They were going to charge us more than 150 euros (extreme rip-off). Maybe it was just that time of the month for the woman behind the window. It was not a normal price, as all the other woman were telling her just to give us my passport and let us go but she wasn't going to have it.

So there is my experience so far with the ER

zach21uk
25-08-09, 09:52
Did you get your passport back? What was the resolution?

Jonathan
25-08-09, 14:34
What happened Kyle??

I hear that kidney stones are absolute agony. Are you OK now?

I would say that €150 is about what you have been charged in a private hospital.

You say all you got was an injection? Are you sure the ultrasound was not used to break down the kidney stones?

Jonathan
25-08-09, 14:47
OK here goes. This is from one person who due to my husbands health problems and recently my own (I had a cancer scare recently) have become very familiar with both private and state medical care.

We were lucky 3 years ago to find a doctor who I would class as the nearest to being a GP in the private sector. Her name is Doctor Sandra Krasjvic (I am sure I have mispelt the surname) and she now works for Irva Clinic in Banovo Brdo. She has worked in a hospital for a period of time in Manchester, UK and her English is excellent. She helped my husband to survive a critical illness (given 48 hours to live on that one) and we have called on her many times for follow ups and more diagnostics for which she diagnosed another serious illness and between us we managed then to locate the necessary company to supply oxygen at home.

She is my doctor too! Her name is Dr Sandra Krstajic. You can contact her via http://www.irvaclinic.com .

She is absolutely brilliant. I first met her at Bel Medic a few years ago and was super lucky to track her down at her new practice after she left them.

She is not only a genuine world class diagnostician and doctor, she also believes in continuity of care i.e. having a long term relationship with her patients. She is also an extremely charming and decent woman at a personal level.

I strongly recommend her to anyone needing a GP and for more serious matters too. Either she can treat you, her clinic either has the specialists or she will know who to send you to.

Kyle
01-09-09, 00:25
Well in the end the woman told jo to walk out as if we were never there.

I had an injection, and they took some tests, had an x-ray and a 2 second long ultra sound.

After the ultra sound the doc just said its sand in the kidneys and I must go back to the doctor.

I doubt the ultra sound did much, it wasn't stones, it's sand. But i was in a huge amount of pain, couldn't walk and i went into shock. It was then that jo decided to take me to the urgenti center, however we had no money cos the night before we gave our money to a friend to get a taxi home, and I couldnt walk, let alone get on a bus.

So we got that same friend to bring us a taxi. It was hell, and I hope no one experiences that pain. I have spoken to multiple serb (guys) that all have kidney stones. Seems that its very common here??

strange...