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	<title>Comments on: Dire week for Belgrade&#8217;s reputation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.belgradefvc.com/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation</link>
	<description>The community for foreigners in Belgrade, Serbia</description>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-644</guid>
		<description>ExUKdweller,

Belgrade is extremely safe for citizens and foreigners, that&#039;s why these attacks are quite shocking and appaulling. Many foreigners, I&#039;m sure, have been feeling less safe these days. Something I thought I would never say about Belgrade to be honest.

Hopefully, there&#039;ll be no more incidents and things can get back to the way they were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ExUKdweller,</p>
<p>Belgrade is extremely safe for citizens and foreigners, that&#8217;s why these attacks are quite shocking and appaulling. Many foreigners, I&#8217;m sure, have been feeling less safe these days. Something I thought I would never say about Belgrade to be honest.</p>
<p>Hopefully, there&#8217;ll be no more incidents and things can get back to the way they were.</p>
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		<title>By: ExUKdweller</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>ExUKdweller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-636</guid>
		<description>Some of this seems blown way out of proportion to me, sure the homosexual situaution is a problem that will have to be overcome should Serbia want to become part of the EU.  However the recent attacks on foreigners and shootings are o worse than happen in London on a weekly basis so why is it such an appauling issue in Belgrade?  I know for one thing, i&#039;d walk anywhere in Belgrade at night quite happily and without a worry.  I only wish i could say the same for my old capital!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of this seems blown way out of proportion to me, sure the homosexual situaution is a problem that will have to be overcome should Serbia want to become part of the EU.  However the recent attacks on foreigners and shootings are o worse than happen in London on a weekly basis so why is it such an appauling issue in Belgrade?  I know for one thing, i&#8217;d walk anywhere in Belgrade at night quite happily and without a worry.  I only wish i could say the same for my old capital!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Correia</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-634</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Correia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-634</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, last year I made a presentation in a conference in Belgrade specifically about these extremist movements, where I said that despite the fact that are a small minority, I considered them extremely dangerous and a threat to serbian society and to democracy. I also stressed the fact that certain positions from respected institutions like the Serbian Ortodox Church and from conservative circles directly benefited them and why.

Unfortunately, some Serbs in the audience, all of them progressive people, considered my work nothing more than anti-Serb. Others, younger, thought I was right, but still I found very discouraging that people who have a certain level of influence within the progressive circles within the Democratic Party would think that a foreigner saying what I&#039;ve said could be dismissed as anti-serb.

In April I was given information by a credible source that the government and BIA were making moves to tackle the problem, namely by attacking their sources of financement (an issue that I didn&#039;t have the possibility to investigate myself, but which I think is the key to uncover who is behind them). I was glad to know about that, and my source also told me that as their money was drying up, these groupuscules were shrinking and disappearing.

However, this is an essential characteristic of such movements, they dissolve and reappear very easily due to their informality. If you&#039;re interested I can send you my article, which is going to be published soon in a book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, last year I made a presentation in a conference in Belgrade specifically about these extremist movements, where I said that despite the fact that are a small minority, I considered them extremely dangerous and a threat to serbian society and to democracy. I also stressed the fact that certain positions from respected institutions like the Serbian Ortodox Church and from conservative circles directly benefited them and why.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, some Serbs in the audience, all of them progressive people, considered my work nothing more than anti-Serb. Others, younger, thought I was right, but still I found very discouraging that people who have a certain level of influence within the progressive circles within the Democratic Party would think that a foreigner saying what I&#8217;ve said could be dismissed as anti-serb.</p>
<p>In April I was given information by a credible source that the government and BIA were making moves to tackle the problem, namely by attacking their sources of financement (an issue that I didn&#8217;t have the possibility to investigate myself, but which I think is the key to uncover who is behind them). I was glad to know about that, and my source also told me that as their money was drying up, these groupuscules were shrinking and disappearing.</p>
<p>However, this is an essential characteristic of such movements, they dissolve and reappear very easily due to their informality. If you&#8217;re interested I can send you my article, which is going to be published soon in a book.</p>
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		<title>By: jd</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-629</guid>
		<description>@GBail et al

OK, I think I spoke too soon. 

I am starting to think that there were substantial reasons the government acted as they did. The extremists were MUCH more organised than I was giving them credit for. Reports of arms caches, rocks disguised as apples, petrol bombs hidden in drains etc. 

I think the most telling statement came form the Interior Minister, Ivica Dacic: 

&quot;It wouldn’t just have been members of extremist organizations congregating in the streets of Belgrade, but, according to information from the intelligence services, members of the public too, who aren’t members of Obraz or the 1389 Movement,” Dačić said&quot;

http://b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&amp;mm=09&amp;dd=22&amp;nav_id=61892

It appears that what tipped Dacic over the edge was the BIA (Internal Intelligence Service) revealing the extent of the extremists organisation, along with the prospect that the parade would be attacked not just by Obraz and 1389, but ordinary citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@GBail et al</p>
<p>OK, I think I spoke too soon. </p>
<p>I am starting to think that there were substantial reasons the government acted as they did. The extremists were MUCH more organised than I was giving them credit for. Reports of arms caches, rocks disguised as apples, petrol bombs hidden in drains etc. </p>
<p>I think the most telling statement came form the Interior Minister, Ivica Dacic: </p>
<p>&#8220;It wouldn’t just have been members of extremist organizations congregating in the streets of Belgrade, but, according to information from the intelligence services, members of the public too, who aren’t members of Obraz or the 1389 Movement,” Dačić said&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&#038;mm=09&#038;dd=22&#038;nav_id=61892" rel="nofollow">http://b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&#038;mm=09&#038;dd=22&#038;nav_id=61892</a></p>
<p>It appears that what tipped Dacic over the edge was the BIA (Internal Intelligence Service) revealing the extent of the extremists organisation, along with the prospect that the parade would be attacked not just by Obraz and 1389, but ordinary citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: GBail</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>GBail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-628</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a little more to all of this to let you all know. First off, its more then just those few things. On sunday two foreigners were beaten when they stepped off of the train, two greeks were on the streets as well and beaten, and yesterday another foreigner was dropped off from a bridge, and there are more stories coming from the past couple days and now, they just didn&#039;t end up in the hospitals from it so its not hitting the news.

Also, the Serbian government and the organization already decided on Friday to cancel the parade, not on Saturday. The threats were too real and large, and it was more then a handful of thugs, it was thousands of people that had organized to cause harm at it with detailed guerilla like tactics. Just from republika srpska alone over 2,500 people were ready to be bused into Belgrade for it, plus thousands more from around the country.

 In one case on saturday over 200 people in Karaburma had armed themselves with guns and knifes, and they even had made bracelets and t-shirts to look like they were supporters of the pride. They had plans to infiltrate it inside before it was closed off at 11 am, and to cause harm from inside of it. Others also had detailed plans to attack people and wait for them after the parade in different places, where they were staying, en route, etc.

 Serious and grave harm was going to be caused, and the Serbian government knew it. They had to do damage control fast and cancel the parade or else as bad as the reputation looks now, it would have been a helluva alot worst if the parade went on on Sunday. Whatever measures they took a lot of people would have been seriously injured or killed, and they did try to take a lot of measures up in the past month.

They had been organizing police escorts for everyone that was coming to belgrade for the parade, before and after, they tried and contacted with everyone from the organizations to the places they were staying, and they were ready to do it if they had to, but they spoke with the organizers and basically told them it is not going to go over well even with all of this protection that we give you and the organizers agreed in the end and cancelled it.

They are dissapointed of course, but give the police and the organizers both a little it of credit and respect for cancelling this parade. It is sad that they had to bow down to extremism, and that is the fault of the serbian government over the past many years as someone stated earlier, but they were trying finally not to, but in the end they realized they could not protect the people and it was in the best interest of everyone to cancel it.

Now this will spark debate amongst the politicians and people of Belgrade and serbia, and hopefully move the country more forward into doing more to break up these extremism groups, ban them, and prevent them from being able to organize so well in the future, but it will take time, and it could not be rushed and done within one or two months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a little more to all of this to let you all know. First off, its more then just those few things. On sunday two foreigners were beaten when they stepped off of the train, two greeks were on the streets as well and beaten, and yesterday another foreigner was dropped off from a bridge, and there are more stories coming from the past couple days and now, they just didn&#8217;t end up in the hospitals from it so its not hitting the news.</p>
<p>Also, the Serbian government and the organization already decided on Friday to cancel the parade, not on Saturday. The threats were too real and large, and it was more then a handful of thugs, it was thousands of people that had organized to cause harm at it with detailed guerilla like tactics. Just from republika srpska alone over 2,500 people were ready to be bused into Belgrade for it, plus thousands more from around the country.</p>
<p> In one case on saturday over 200 people in Karaburma had armed themselves with guns and knifes, and they even had made bracelets and t-shirts to look like they were supporters of the pride. They had plans to infiltrate it inside before it was closed off at 11 am, and to cause harm from inside of it. Others also had detailed plans to attack people and wait for them after the parade in different places, where they were staying, en route, etc.</p>
<p> Serious and grave harm was going to be caused, and the Serbian government knew it. They had to do damage control fast and cancel the parade or else as bad as the reputation looks now, it would have been a helluva alot worst if the parade went on on Sunday. Whatever measures they took a lot of people would have been seriously injured or killed, and they did try to take a lot of measures up in the past month.</p>
<p>They had been organizing police escorts for everyone that was coming to belgrade for the parade, before and after, they tried and contacted with everyone from the organizations to the places they were staying, and they were ready to do it if they had to, but they spoke with the organizers and basically told them it is not going to go over well even with all of this protection that we give you and the organizers agreed in the end and cancelled it.</p>
<p>They are dissapointed of course, but give the police and the organizers both a little it of credit and respect for cancelling this parade. It is sad that they had to bow down to extremism, and that is the fault of the serbian government over the past many years as someone stated earlier, but they were trying finally not to, but in the end they realized they could not protect the people and it was in the best interest of everyone to cancel it.</p>
<p>Now this will spark debate amongst the politicians and people of Belgrade and serbia, and hopefully move the country more forward into doing more to break up these extremism groups, ban them, and prevent them from being able to organize so well in the future, but it will take time, and it could not be rushed and done within one or two months.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan909</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan909</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-627</guid>
		<description>So if this was a failure of will &amp; not means, what were that outlying factors for the governments abrupt change of stance? Some allegience to the orthodox church or that power exercised by government can still be compromised today? ie. Another example that corruption within the government still prevails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if this was a failure of will &amp; not means, what were that outlying factors for the governments abrupt change of stance? Some allegience to the orthodox church or that power exercised by government can still be compromised today? ie. Another example that corruption within the government still prevails.</p>
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		<title>By: NYCBG65</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCBG65</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-626</guid>
		<description>Dear Sarah, as I agree with much that you stated, I too am appalled that they cancelled the parade. But, if on any given day you pass
Trg. Republike and take a look at the Radovan Karadzic supporters that you are affiliating with 1389...all you will encounter is about 20 toothless 60year olds, burned out from years of inhaling cigarette smoke !
These hooligans(kids) are too lazy and NOT committed nor dedicated enough to any long term causes! I think they get &quot;heated-up&quot; in the spur of the moment.....one day it&#039;s a soccer match, the next day its the gay parade, and the next something else.........I wish they would be that brave and fight to put a ban on cigarette smoke in Serbian cafes and restaurants!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sarah, as I agree with much that you stated, I too am appalled that they cancelled the parade. But, if on any given day you pass<br />
Trg. Republike and take a look at the Radovan Karadzic supporters that you are affiliating with 1389&#8230;all you will encounter is about 20 toothless 60year olds, burned out from years of inhaling cigarette smoke !<br />
These hooligans(kids) are too lazy and NOT committed nor dedicated enough to any long term causes! I think they get &#8220;heated-up&#8221; in the spur of the moment&#8230;..one day it&#8217;s a soccer match, the next day its the gay parade, and the next something else&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I wish they would be that brave and fight to put a ban on cigarette smoke in Serbian cafes and restaurants!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Correia</title>
		<link>http://www.belgradefvc.com/blog/dire-week-for-belgrades-reputation/comment-page-1#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Correia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.belgradefvc.com/?p=552#comment-622</guid>
		<description>Too little too late. The government should have made the issue of the extremist groups a stronger priority, instead of allowing grouposcules such as 1389 to make daily rallies in Trg Republik in honour of Radovan Karadzic, as well as seriously tackled the problem of violence closely connected to football supporters, aka organized hooligans. 
Or else, it should have assumed from the start that it wouldn&#039;t allow the Parade due to security risks. You very keenly point that this was a failure of will, not of means. It is ridiculous to think that the serbian state lacks the means to face such a challenge, and I don&#039;t even believe that it would be necessary to use the army. 

For us, friends of the city of Belgrade it is indeed sad to face this outcome. This is not to deny that things have been changing for the better, but rather to regret a missed opportunity to stand by the proclaimed values which helped this government get domestic and international support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too little too late. The government should have made the issue of the extremist groups a stronger priority, instead of allowing grouposcules such as 1389 to make daily rallies in Trg Republik in honour of Radovan Karadzic, as well as seriously tackled the problem of violence closely connected to football supporters, aka organized hooligans.<br />
Or else, it should have assumed from the start that it wouldn&#8217;t allow the Parade due to security risks. You very keenly point that this was a failure of will, not of means. It is ridiculous to think that the serbian state lacks the means to face such a challenge, and I don&#8217;t even believe that it would be necessary to use the army. </p>
<p>For us, friends of the city of Belgrade it is indeed sad to face this outcome. This is not to deny that things have been changing for the better, but rather to regret a missed opportunity to stand by the proclaimed values which helped this government get domestic and international support.</p>
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